Changes between Initial Version and Version 1 of Ticket #1817, comment 4


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Timestamp:
Nov 30, 2016, 9:00:18 PM (8 years ago)
Author:
tomroche

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  • Ticket #1817, comment 4

    initial v1  
    1 greetings, Christian:
     1'''summary:'''
     2
     31. Regarding platform/wikihost for this [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Page_Forms Page Forms] (''PF'') application:
     4   1. as noted above, development through at least alpha-testing can be done on a freehost (i.e., a free, external SMW provider, such as [http://referata.com/wiki/Creating_a_Referata_site Referata] or the [https://sandbox.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Main_Page SMW sandbox]), preventing problems with current wiki apps on current wikihost.
     5   1. deployment of all OSGeo assets should only be onto secure hosts, and moreover hosts for which OSGeo can maintain security (i.e., has required resources). If time/labor resources prevent appropriate maintenance of current wikihost, we should redeploy to an external provider. (See some details regarding those on the security ticket:1819; more to come.)
     61. Regarding deployment automation framework (''DAF''):
     7   1. [https://www.npmjs.com/package/mobo Mobo] and [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Page_Schemas Page Schemas] (''PS'') seem approximately (ICBW) functionally equivalent.
     8   1. Mobo is apparently (ICBW) not currently available on any external SMW provider, while PS is available on at least 2 (Referata and [https://www.wikihoster.net/whn/Hauptseite WikiHoster]).
     9   1. Mobo is less well maintained than PS, and seems much less likely to track future changes in PF (the presentation layer which both DAFs target).
     10
     11'''details:'''
     12
     13Greetings, Christian:
    214
    315Firstly, regarding [comment:3 your concern that]
    … …  
    820: note that [https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1817#Rocheproposal my proposal] has always been to do initial development through alpha-testing on a freehost, aka an external SMW provider, precisely to avoid any such collision.
    921
    10 This brings us to our first main (indeed, fundamental) difference. You want to use the current wikihost. That was my intention, until I learned that the current wiki is so very downlevel (see ticket:1819) as to be insecure. For confirmation that this is not merely my opinion, see [https://sourceforge.net/p/semediawiki/mailman/semediawiki-user/thread/87a8cyzmbm.fsf%40pobox.com/#msg35496996 this thread on SMW-users]. Regarding contributors to that thread, note that Jeroen De Dauw is [https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SMW_Project#Development SMW's co-core developer] and Karsten Hoffmeyer (kghbin) is the [https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SMW_Project#Website_and_Documentation editor in chief of SMW's website and doc] (as well as the operator of [https://www.wikihoster.net/whn/Hauptseite WikiHoster]). So while I am certainly an SMW newbie, my concerns regarding the insecurity of the current wikihost's configuration are shared by folks who are much more experienced with SMW and MW than I and probably you.
     22This brings us to our first main (indeed, fundamental) difference. You want to use the current wikihost. That was my intention, until I learned that the current wiki is so very downlevel (see ticket:1819) as to be insecure. For confirmation that this is not merely my opinion, see [https://sourceforge.net/p/semediawiki/mailman/semediawiki-user/thread/87a8cyzmbm.fsf%40pobox.com/#msg35496996 this thread on SMW-users]. Regarding contributors to that thread, note that Jeroen De Dauw is [https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SMW_Project#Development SMW's co-core developer] and Karsten Hoffmeyer (kghbin) is the [https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SMW_Project#Website_and_Documentation editor in chief of SMW's website and doc] (as well as the operator of WikiHoster). So while I am certainly an SMW newbie, my concerns regarding the insecurity of the current wikihost's configuration are shared by folks who are much more experienced with SMW and MW than I and probably you.
    1123
    1224Operating an internet-facing site as insecure as the current wikihost is, IMHO, not an option. Unfortunately, as both you and I have previously expressed, neither of us currently has spare cycles to commit to admin-ing the wiki longterm. Accordingly, unless someone steps forward and credibly commits both to update the current wikihost to a secure configuration and to maintain its security longterm, I will recommend moving the wiki instance to an external SMW provider. There are several, including some free options, and at least one (!WikiHoster) that offers support in both German and English. (I'll post more on pricing and availability separately.) These providers take care to keep both the underlying platform and the MW/SMW extensions uplevel--the current wikihost fails both.
    1325
    14 This brings us to the second main question: deployment automation framework (DAF). There are at least 2 options publicly available: [https://www.npmjs.com/package/mobo Mobo] and [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Page_Schemas Page Schemas (PS)]. AFAICS, these 2 DAFs have approximately-equal function sets, with relatively minor implementation differences. (E.g., Mobo uses YAML while PS uses XML. I prefer YAML, but I can read and write either.) As a result, I suspect (ICBW, and am learning more about both Mobo and PS) that both your model and mine can be expressed using either DAF, since both deploy to Page Forms (the uplevel version of Semantic Forms, per the provider of both, Yaron Koren).
     26This brings us to the second main question: DAF to use. There are at least 2 options publicly available: Mobo and PS. AFAICS (and ICBW), these 2 DAFs have approximately-equal function sets, with relatively minor implementation differences. (E.g., Mobo uses YAML while PS uses XML. I prefer YAML, but I can read and write either.) As a result, I suspect (ICBW, and am learning more about both Mobo and PS) that both your model and mine can be expressed using either DAF, since both deploy to Page Forms (''PF'', the uplevel version of Semantic Forms, per the provider of both, Yaron Koren).
    1527
    1628The major ''implementation'' difference between Mobo and PS is that the former is external to MW, while PS is an MW extension. This leads to the major ''availability'' difference: at least 2 external providers (Referata and !WikiHoster) support PS, but I currently know of none that support Mobo. Hence I am using PS to develop the OSRC app.
     29
     30There is also a ''social'' difference between Mobo and PS, regarding their developers/maintainers, which should not be ignored. Mobo is essentially [http://fannon.de/p/Schema-Driven_Development_of_Semantic_MediaWikis.pdf Simon Heimler's master's thesis project]: only one other person has [https://github.com/Fannon/mobo/graphs/contributors committed to Mobo]--by making exactly 1 commit. That thesis was submitted 18 Jul 2015. Of the [https://github.com/Fannon/mobo/commits/master commits to the Mobo repo] (archived [https://web.archive.org/web/20161201042350/https://github.com/Fannon/mobo/commits/master here]), the last functional commit was 25 Jan 2016, and the last commit of any kind was [https://github.com/Fannon/mobo/commit/50b1ebcf7edf8c3f4a195e2ee5e5846939775deb 18 Mar 2016] (archived [https://web.archive.org/web/20161201042651/https://github.com/Fannon/mobo/commit/50b1ebcf7edf8c3f4a195e2ee5e5846939775deb here]), in which Heimler withdraws his prior commitment to a version 2. Furthermore Heimler's last post to an SMW maillist was 3 Nov 2015 (per [https://sourceforge.net/p/semediawiki/mailman/search/?q=Heimler&limit=25&page=0&sort=posted_date%20desc this search]). Given Heimler's withdrawal from the community and the code, ISTM reasonable to assume that Mobo will be unmaintained for the forseeable future.
     31
     32By contrast, both PF and PS are maintained by primarily maintained by Yaron Koren, a former core SMW contributor who remains very active on the SMW lists. PS has a [https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-PageSchemas/graphs/contributors much larger commit community] (including current and former core SMW contributors), and [https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-PageSchemas/commits/master much more frequent commits]. Hence it seems quite unlikely that PS will become abandonware; particularly it seems likely that PS will track any future changes in PF (unlike Mobo).