March 3, 2008  20:00 UTC

Organizer: tschaub

Agenda

1. Progress report on 2.6.
2. Do we want #933 (transitions) in 2.6?
3. Release tasks
4. Release manager
5. Glance at the future

Attending

• Christopher Schmidt
• Eric Lemoine
• Schuyler Erle
• Pierre Giraud
• Paul Spencer
• Tim Schaub

IRC Log

(12:58:47 PM) tschaub: ok
(12:58:55 PM) tschaub: 1. Progress report on 2.6.
(12:59:04 PM) pgiraud_home: hi all
(12:59:08 PM) tschaub: howdy
(12:59:16 PM) Bdragon|boston left the room (quit: Connection timed out).
(12:59:25 PM) ***pgiraud_home is ready
(12:59:48 PM) tschaub: so, we're 95% of the way there
(12:59:49 PM) crschmidt: okay, so
(12:59:55 PM) crschmidt: yay
(01:00:08 PM) tschaub: seems like we could just flip through the remaining issues
(01:00:15 PM) euzuro: The popups still need some work
(01:00:24 PM) pgiraud_home: how much ?
(01:00:35 PM) pgiraud_home: can I give help ? how can I give help ?
(01:00:40 PM) Bdragon left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
(01:00:48 PM) ninix: [14:54] <euzuro> maybe he's not using trunk : no i don't use trunk..... but i modify the fix for popup in FF manually
(01:00:49 PM) tschaub: euzuro: (after pgiraud_home's question) what did you decide about subclasses (trunk vs addin)
(01:01:21 PM) euzuro: tschaub: im GoinG to yield the riGht of way to you
(01:01:31 PM) tschaub: re: what?
(01:01:33 PM) euzuro: ...which is to say
(01:01:36 PM) euzuro: this is your meetinG
(01:01:41 PM) euzuro: you call the shots
(01:01:46 PM) euzuro: i dont wanna talk out of order
(01:01:52 PM) euzuro:  :-)
(01:02:01 PM) ***tschaub wonders if I'm not reading messages in the same order as others
(01:02:09 PM) tschaub: let's hear about popups
(01:02:20 PM) euzuro: ok
(01:02:21 PM) euzuro: so
(01:02:25 PM) euzuro: popups:
(01:02:33 PM) euzuro: there are still plenty of little issues
(01:02:55 PM) pgiraud_home: are those issues blocker ?
(01:02:56 PM) euzuro: 1) decide which of the subclasses Go in trunk and which dont
(01:03:16 PM) euzuro: (ie ambercloud, framedcloud, etc)
(01:03:34 PM) ***tschaub isn't so fond of corporate classnames
(01:03:35 PM) euzuro: 2) fix the bottom left and bottom right for framedcloud
(01:03:50 PM) euzuro: 3) make the popups work in IE
(01:04:10 PM) tschaub: can others help?
(01:04:23 PM) euzuro: sure
(01:04:29 PM) euzuro: anyone should be able to do #2
(01:04:31 PM) oltrac: Ticket #2: Create ChangeZoom event on map element, http://trac.openlayers.org/ticket/2
(01:04:40 PM) euzuro: (anyone with a reasonable amount of patience, that is)
(01:04:43 PM) tschaub: pgiraud_home: are you up on that?
(01:04:43 PM) pgiraud_home: I can give a shot on #2
(01:04:46 PM) oltrac: Ticket #2: Create ChangeZoom event on map element, http://trac.openlayers.org/ticket/2
(01:04:47 PM) tschaub: cool
(01:04:49 PM) euzuro: number 3 i havent looked at yet.
(01:05:00 PM) tschaub: do others have an opinion on no.1
(01:05:04 PM) euzuro: number 1 is just a question of taking a decision
(01:05:14 PM) euzuro: riGht. what do others think?
(01:05:16 PM) crschmidt: I think that we should include one popup in trunk
(01:05:25 PM) crschmidt: And we should include the other popup in the example page itself
(01:05:29 PM) ***tschaub agrees with crschmidt
(01:05:40 PM) crschmidt: (One working popup, that is, preferably one that has relative positioning)
(01:05:43 PM) euzuro: ...and put the other popup in addins?
(01:05:48 PM) euzuro: riGht
(01:05:55 PM) crschmidt: No, just leave it in the example page itself:
(01:06:03 PM) Schuyler: yes, one popup in trunk, please.
(01:06:04 PM) crschmidt: That way people can see how to include it in their own applications (and they can decie where they want to put that code)
(01:06:09 PM) euzuro: but doesnt it seem like a reasonable addin?
(01:06:23 PM) crschmidt: euzuro: It's like, 25 lines of code, right?
(01:06:23 PM) pgiraud_home: euzuro: +1
(01:06:32 PM) pgiraud_home: let's put this as an addin
(01:06:43 PM) tschaub: and ideally we wouldn't need subclasses to change style (I know that pisses people off)
(01:06:55 PM) pgiraud_home: 25 lines of code + css + images
(01:07:07 PM) elem: link?
(01:07:13 PM) crschmidt: Okay, with css and images, I guess it makes sense that we need more than just an example
(01:07:20 PM) crschmidt: so:
(01:07:20 PM) euzuro: yeah
(01:07:20 PM) crschmidt: http://dev.openlayers.org/sandbox/euzuro/pop/lib/OpenLayers/Popup/AmberCloud.js
(01:07:25 PM) crschmidt: Becomes an addin
(01:07:28 PM) tschaub: so, addins it is
(01:07:29 PM) crschmidt: with all of its requisite pieces
(01:07:32 PM) euzuro: riGht
(01:07:35 PM) Kred left the room (quit: "ta ta").
(01:07:35 PM) euzuro: Good.
(01:07:38 PM) pgiraud_home: what is the one with relative position ?
(01:07:45 PM) euzuro:  framedpopup
(01:07:48 PM) crschmidt: pgihttp://dev.openlayers.org/sandbox/euzuro/pop/lib/OpenLayers/Popup/FramedCloud.js
(01:07:50 PM) pgiraud_home: let's put this one in trunk
(01:07:52 PM) crschmidt: not framedcloud?
(01:07:55 PM) crschmidt: oh
(01:07:56 PM) euzuro: oh
(01:08:04 PM) euzuro: framedcloud
(01:08:05 PM) euzuro: riGht
(01:08:06 PM) euzuro: thats it
(01:08:08 PM) crschmidt: right
(01:08:20 PM) euzuro: btw, my G key for whatever reason refuses to Go lowercase. apoloGies
(01:08:28 PM) pgiraud_home: are we going to focus on fixing this one
(01:08:31 PM) tschaub: :)
(01:08:32 PM) crschmidt: So, framedcloud (and framed, which it depends on) goes into trunk, ambercloud goes into addins
(01:08:37 PM) crschmidt: pgiraud_home: yes
(01:08:42 PM) euzuro: aGreed
(01:08:51 PM) euzuro: 1 is resolved
(01:08:52 PM) tschaub: and does "Cloud" describe anything but one of the authors?
(01:08:56 PM) euzuro: 2 pierre will attack
(01:09:07 PM) pgiraud_home: tomorrow if I get a chance
(01:09:08 PM) euzuro: cloud is descriptive of a popup
(01:09:11 PM) pgiraud_home: or maybe friday
(01:09:15 PM) tschaub: can't we just send a nice thank you and describe ...
(01:09:23 PM) euzuro: and a wink to the people that Got this code off the Ground in the first place
(01:09:28 PM) tschaub: ok, perhaps cloud means something I don't know about
(01:09:49 PM) Schuyler: I'd like to see the name rationalized
(01:09:53 PM) euzuro: its not like we're calliknG it the MicrosoftPopup
(01:09:57 PM) tschaub: +1 Schuyler
(01:09:59 PM) Schuyler: it's not going to make sense to someone new to the API
(01:10:02 PM) euzuro: its a cloud
(01:10:06 PM) euzuro: it looks like a cloud
(01:10:11 PM) euzuro: and its framed
(01:10:16 PM) tschaub: ok, continue this later
(01:10:18 PM) tschaub: 2) Do we want #933 (transitions) in 2.6?
(01:10:22 PM) oltrac: Ticket #933: Animated transition between views, http://trac.openlayers.org/ticket/933
(01:10:28 PM) crschmidt: Right now, the state is mostly complete
(01:10:32 PM) pgiraud_home: is Paul around ?
(01:10:35 PM) crschmidt: for tiled layers, the code that exists is perfectly working
(01:10:39 PM) pgiraud_home: what's missing ?
(01:10:40 PM) pagameba: here
(01:10:44 PM) tschaub: bingo
(01:10:48 PM) crschmidt: and for untiled layers, there is a minor bug that causes a 'flash' in FF
(01:10:54 PM) crschmidt: It works with no problems in IE
(01:11:01 PM) tschaub: pagameba: is this on your radar?
(01:11:02 PM) pagameba: and the animation is not in that patch yet
(01:11:09 PM) pgiraud_home: is this blocker ?
(01:11:18 PM) pagameba: yes I would like to get it into trunk
(01:11:29 PM) pagameba: pgiraud_home, I don't think so
(01:11:29 PM) Schuyler: I think that bug isn't a blocker
(01:11:31 PM) crschmidt: pgiraud_home: Is the bug a blocker, or is the functionality a blocker?
(01:11:35 PM) Schuyler: can the transitiions be turned off?
(01:11:35 PM) tschaub: is anyone (aside from crschmidt) actively thinking about it and working toward that?
(01:11:42 PM) crschmidt: The transitions are off by default
(01:11:46 PM) pgiraud_home: crschmidt: the flash bug
(01:11:47 PM) Schuyler: ok
(01:11:50 PM) pagameba: transitions are totally optional
(01:12:00 PM) crschmidt: pgiraud_home: The flash bug is not, in my opinion, a blocker for inclusion of the code
(01:12:02 PM) Schuyler: I think the flash bug isn't a blocker, but I would like to see the feature in the release
(01:12:03 PM) euzuro: i think transitions should be on by default
(01:12:10 PM) Schuyler: euzuro: let's leave that for 2.7
(01:12:10 PM) crschmidt: euzuro: It's overhead
(01:12:14 PM) crschmidt: you have twice as many divs
(01:12:30 PM) pagameba: agree 2.7
(01:12:30 PM) tschaub: yeah, I like the idea of seeing how it works for people first
(01:12:32 PM) crschmidt: We shouldn't force that on our users with as little testing as this has seen
(01:12:32 PM) euzuro: not for panninG, thouGh, riGht?
(01:12:34 PM) tschaub: before forcing it
(01:13:05 PM) tschaub: pagameba: do you have any time in your schedule to work on the bug part?
(01:13:07 PM) crschmidt: euzuro: For the record, yes for panning as well
(01:13:24 PM) euzuro: more divs for panninG?!
(01:13:27 PM) euzuro: huh
(01:13:28 PM) pagameba: I spent several nights trying to figure the bug out
(01:13:34 PM) crschmidt: when the layer is created, it's creating duplicates of all divs if you choose to have transitions on: those are maintained (not destroyed) thoroughout the rest of the process
(01:13:35 PM) pagameba: it only happens when caching isn't disabled
(01:14:02 PM) pagameba: so its some kind of timing issue
(01:14:13 PM) elem: pagameba: you're talking about the flash bug?
(01:14:17 PM) pagameba: yeah
(01:14:19 PM) ***euzuro capitulates
(01:14:23 PM) tschaub: ok, so 933 goes in with or without the bug, right?
(01:14:26 PM) crschmidt: So, paul has spent some time on the bug, but can't work out why it's happening, and it's a timing issue, which makes it hard to debug, and even with the issue, it's still significantly better than without the functionality at all
(01:14:41 PM) Schuyler: +1
(01:14:50 PM) tschaub: cool
(01:14:50 PM) pgiraud_home: +1
(01:14:51 PM) crschmidt: At this point, I'm almost of the opinion that #933 should go in as is: if we fix it more, it improves, if not, it doesn't, and we leave it off by default for 2.6
(01:14:54 PM) oltrac: Ticket #933: Animated transition between views, http://trac.openlayers.org/ticket/933
(01:14:54 PM) euzuro: just for the record, i think its a bad move to release somethinG that we know has a buG
(01:14:54 PM) pagameba: so 933 could go in now
(01:15:00 PM) tschaub: +1
(01:15:07 PM) tschaub: moving on
(01:15:07 PM) crschmidt: tschaub: to erik, or me?
(01:15:08 PM) pagameba: and then I can add animation as a new patch against trunk
(01:15:14 PM) tschaub: 3) Release tasks
(01:15:23 PM) tschaub: (to getting 933 in)
(01:15:27 PM) crschmidt: okay
(01:15:35 PM) crschmidt: I'm happy to continue doing gruntwork release management for this release
(01:15:52 PM) crschmidt: (It's kinda limited to Erik or I, anyway, since we're on a MC server)
(01:15:52 PM) pgiraud_home: great
(01:16:01 PM) tschaub: is that page (http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/Release/Procedure) enough to get someone else helping in the future
(01:16:07 PM) tschaub: (with access of course)
(01:16:12 PM) crschmidt: Yes
(01:16:16 PM) Schuyler: assuming the infrastructure gets moved.
(01:16:16 PM) crschmidt: I follow those directions exactly
(01:16:36 PM) ajturner [n=ajturner@24.249.68.2] entered the room.
(01:16:38 PM) crschmidt: osgeo doesn't have infrastructure that is currently capable of meeting the needs of the openlayers website at the same level of service as metacarta does currently
(01:16:44 PM) tschaub: and perhaps more importantly, do we want to have a
(01:16:46 PM) tschaub: 4) Release manager
(01:16:52 PM) tschaub: ?
(01:16:59 PM) tschaub: (position that rotates)
(01:16:59 PM) crschmidt: Yes
(01:17:06 PM) crschmidt: Someone has to make the 2.6 vs. not 2.6 calls
(01:17:16 PM) crschmidt: That should be a single person, especially after the first RC
(01:17:20 PM) Schuyler: I would like to volunteer.
(01:17:22 PM) tschaub: crschmidt: was that a yes to the "position that rotates" bit?
(01:17:39 PM) Schuyler: I would like to get more involved in the project and I'm going to have time for it starting next week.
(01:17:43 PM) tschaub: cool
(01:17:43 PM) crschmidt: tschaub: That's fine too, if more than one person is willing to offer to do it ;)
(01:17:49 PM) ***pgiraud_home is not sure to really understand what 4) is for
(01:17:51 PM) pgiraud_home: sorry
(01:18:01 PM) crschmidt: pgiraud_home: A release manager mostly makes the calls on when "done is done"
(01:18:10 PM) crschmidt: He does things like say "This bug will not be fixed in 2.6"
(01:18:20 PM) crschmidt: or "this bug is a blocker for 2.6"
(01:18:20 PM) ***tschaub was thinking that a release manager also did the tasks in the procedure page
(01:18:31 PM) tschaub: the gruntwork as well
(01:18:44 PM) crschmidt: In general, that might be true; because of iour infrastructure situation, I'm happy to do the gruntwork at the request of a release manager who is external
(01:19:02 PM) tschaub: ok, makes sense for now
(01:19:11 PM) crschmidt: it's on me to get us moved off of MC hosting: until I solve that problem, I'll pay the price for not yet getting it done :)
(01:19:23 PM) elem: http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/Release/Procedure can only be done by someone close to MC servers?
(01:19:31 PM) Schuyler: that grunt work isn't very time consuming
(01:19:38 PM) Schuyler: it takes a few minutes every RC
(01:19:42 PM) crschmidt: Nope
(01:19:48 PM) crschmidt: I've got a script that does it all for me at this point anyway
(01:19:50 PM) pgiraud_home: so Schuyler proposes to be volunteer as Release Manager
(01:19:55 PM) pgiraud_home: +1 for Schuyler
(01:20:01 PM) tschaub: mkdir /www/openlayers/htdocs/api/x.y-rcZ
(01:20:07 PM) ninix left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(01:20:14 PM) pagameba: +1 for Schuyler
(01:20:29 PM) crschmidt: oh, hm: there is one part of being a release manager that is time consuming that Schuyler can take on
(01:20:36 PM) crschmidt: specifically, compiling the release notes/notification
(01:20:42 PM) tschaub: barring any dissent, Schuyler is manager for 2.6
(01:20:43 PM) crschmidt: "Compile a Release announcement"
(01:20:51 PM) euzuro: yes, lets detail what the position involves before votinG someone to it
(01:21:48 PM) pgiraud_home: who does ?
(01:22:05 PM) ajturner left the room (quit: ).
(01:22:23 PM) tschaub: crschmidt: since you've been manager/grunt dude for previous releases, can you detail the responsibilities?
(01:22:31 PM) oltrac: ReleaseManager edited by tschaub, http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/ReleaseManager
(01:22:59 PM) Schuyler: I understand the role to be: (1) facilitating getting outstanding issues closed; (2) lowering the boom as necessary; (3) compiling release announcement; (4) cutting release
(01:23:02 PM) crschmidt: So, Schuyler will take care of: 1. making sure that 2.6 doens't grow without bound, by making calls on what goes in 2.6, 2. when he's convinced it's fine, send a vote to the dev list for the psc to vote on, 2. Compile release announcement for the new RC, 4. poke me to update the relevant website bits, 5. send an announcement to the dev list
(01:23:11 PM) Schuyler: yep
(01:23:13 PM) crschmidt: right
(01:23:39 PM) pgiraud_home: it sounds good
(01:24:08 PM) euzuro: excellent
(01:24:29 PM) tschaub: I think it would be good for release manager to bug people to get their stuff done (this is Schuyler's 1)
(01:24:33 PM) oltrac: ReleaseManager edited by crschmidt, http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/ReleaseManager
(01:24:35 PM) oltrac: ReleaseManager edited by crschmidt, http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/ReleaseManager
(01:24:35 PM) crschmidt: argh i hate wikitext
(01:24:37 PM) oltrac: ReleaseManager edited by crschmidt, http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/ReleaseManager
(01:24:38 PM) Schuyler: yeah
(01:24:44 PM) tschaub: ignore_missing_pages
(01:24:53 PM) crschmidt: tschaub: no
(01:24:58 PM) crschmidt: i don't know how to make an ordered list
(01:25:03 PM) tschaub: 1.
(01:25:04 PM) tschaub: 1.
(01:25:10 PM) tschaub:  * 
(01:25:11 PM) tschaub:  * 
(01:25:22 PM) crschmidt: there we go
(01:25:39 PM) tschaub: and release manager gets feedback from devs on how long stuff might take
(01:25:39 PM) oltrac: ReleaseManager edited by crschmidt, http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/ReleaseManager
(01:25:54 PM) crschmidt: ignore_missing_pages is set to true on the OL wiki
(01:26:04 PM) tschaub: so release manager has a decent idea of when it is reasonable to expect a release
(01:26:40 PM) tschaub: thanks crschmidt 
(01:26:49 PM) tschaub: (assume that is new)
(01:27:00 PM) crschmidt: i set it a bit ago, i just forgot to mention it
(01:27:04 PM) crschmidt: I don't know if it's actually working though :)
(01:27:09 PM) tschaub: it is
(01:27:11 PM) tschaub: just tested it
(01:27:14 PM) crschmidt: cool
(01:27:24 PM) crschmidt: Okay, so, that's your horoscope for today
(01:27:24 PM) elem: so CamelNote is no longer a wiki link, right?
(01:27:32 PM) crschmidt: elem: unless it is an existing page
(01:27:34 PM) tschaub: ok, so we've got a new role: release manager
(01:27:42 PM) euzuro: Great
(01:27:42 PM) oltrac: ReleaseManager edited by crschmidt, http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/ReleaseManager
(01:27:43 PM) crschmidt: elem: If the page exists, it's a link, if not, it's just plain text
(01:27:45 PM) tschaub: [wiki:link title] is the way to create new pages
(01:27:54 PM) tschaub: or by url
(01:27:59 PM) elem: crschmidt: thx for clarifying
(01:28:17 PM) euzuro: 14h28
(01:28:27 PM) tschaub: and we're going to ask for release manager volunteers for each release
(01:28:38 PM) tschaub: 5) Glance at the future
(01:28:45 PM) tschaub: any parting comments on the future
(01:28:47 PM) tschaub: ?
(01:28:58 PM) crschmidt: i have ridden the mighty moon worm
(01:29:05 PM) Schuyler: noted.
(01:29:07 PM) crschmidt: (Al Gore, Futurama)
(01:29:08 PM) tschaub: do people think it makes sense to have a roadmap to 3.0?
(01:29:20 PM) crschmidt: not until 2.6 is done
(01:29:26 PM) tschaub: granted
(01:29:28 PM) euzuro: 3.0 is rapidly approachinG
(01:29:31 PM) tschaub: "Future"
(01:29:42 PM) crschmidt: I think a 3.0 roadmap makes sense
(01:29:53 PM) Schuyler: can we save that for a future meeting
(01:29:55 PM) tschaub: ok, I will do something about that later
(01:29:59 PM) euzuro: yes. tikme is out
(01:30:01 PM) tschaub: class dismissed